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I don't know what controversy you are talking about. I just know that some people got a bit tired about the writers always popping in jokes about them being gay. I never thought either of the boys were jerks about it. Then, the "I hate John stuff", etc.... *sigh*, I guess podcasting isn't for me because turning in to hear people insulting things I like is not very pleasant.

i agree john was to hard on his boys later on there are moments whcih sam and dean lash out about John

In the aftermath of the shower scene, yes, clearly plastic spiders. Does it look real during the attack? I have no idea. The first time I watched this ep, my daughter was watching with me and told me when I could open my eyes. Every time I've watched it since, I just fast-forward through whole scene. I don't do spiders...no way, no how, don't care if they're real or fake. *shudders* And yeah, there's just no way to fan-wank the Insta-Dawn. That was just bad. But I still have a fondness for this ep....it's kinda the red-headed stepchild of Supernatural. And I love John Winchester. Was he a good father? God, no. As far as I'm concerned (my opinion only....I don't speak for anyone else) he was selfish, paranoid, obsessed, and messed up his sons beyond all repair. A great CHARACTER who totally influences the first season, even when he's not around. But as a person, a father? Gah. I think Dean and Sam became the men we know and love IN SPITE of John, not because of him. They shaped each other. Yes, I believe John loved them both very much, but I don't think for a minute that he ever had their best interests at heart. And I think Sam was able to see that because he always had Dean to protect him, shelter him, RAISE him, whereas all Dean had to look to was John. Should Sam ever forgive John? Yes, if only for his own peace of mind. I've gone on way too long, and this may not even be the place for this post. No feather-ruffling intended, just wanted to reiterate that I actually liked Bugs (just not spiders)

Hey, Ana. Strangely enough, I'm on a family vacation at the moment, so any Daddy Issues (or Mommy Issues, or Sister Issues, or Newphew Issues, etc) should be pretty evident. Thus far, no blood has spilled so I guess we're all doing ok.

Look, I'm passionate about the John thing, and no, I don't count the comics -- the only "canon" I consider is the show itself. (I'll save the argument itself for a Fighting Words feature, which we plan to run as soon as Mia and Jackie feel like they can make their own decision on the man.) I know it's a controversial opinion, and I want you guys to tell me why I'm wrong. Granted, I'd prefer you to do it without bringing my own family relations into question, but hey, whatever works.

Re: Fandom Groupthink about the episode: Yeah, I know where you're coming from, in that there are some great brother moments, and we DO learn more about the sibling/family relationships, etc., but the CLEARLY plastic spiders, the After-School-Special ham-handedness, and the insta-dawn kind of kill the ep for me. I just can't take it seriously. It was still better than half the stuff on television today, but I expect a lot from Supernatural, so I'll let them know when I think they failed. Just like we expect you to let us know when you think WE'VE failed. Seriously, I love reading what you think about what we think, even when you think I'm an idiot.

Hi Jessica -
I must have missed them saying it in the podcast, but if that's the case then it's directed to them. :) I think they are wrong. How they could angry out of his reaction there is beyond me. LOL Confused and then amused was about as far his reaction went. :D

@zag

i thought i heard somewhere in the podcast that he was angry or something. YES i knew he wasn't, but i'm saying if he was, it shouldn't be a big deal anyway.

i meant that in 'playthings' he seemed a bit frustrated that she said he looked the type. i'm saying its understandable, his reaction anyway. maybe angry wasn't the word.

Geez, ana... harsh much? Sarah's entitled to her opinion. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you need to imply she has psychological issues. You crossed the line with that comment.

"the ep isn't nearly as bad as the fandom sort of fondly makes it out to be."

deejay, I completely agree with you. The kind of group-think that has sprung up around certain episodes kind of makes me a little buggy. Getit? Heh!

Bugs, Route 666 and Wendigo, despite some flaws, are still far superior to episodes like Hookman, because they have some great brotherly moments. Bad special effects or a couple of plot holes don't ruin an episode for me nearly as much as bad characterization.

"haha i agree that the people who thought the brothers were gay, was kinda funny. i think its okay if dean is kinda angry with that, only because he's such a womanizer (i think thats why he has that kinda reaction here and in another ep later)."

Dean wasn't angry. At first he was surprised and then he made a good natured joke out of it, by playing into it. He has shown himself to get confused by the assumptions but not angry.

Think about it, if people were, in essense, frequently assuming you and your sibling were having sex, wouldn't you wonder about it too? Dean plays into it more than Sam does(which I think he mainly does because if people are going to think they are gay, then he wants to be the butch one - big brother's perogative - so clearly the gay part doesn't bother him too much, he just doesn't anyone to think he's the sensitive metrosexual one LOL).

Bugs, despite it's flaws, was the episode that finally settled me on the fact that Dean was definitely the caretaker of the family and Dean had actually been a shield to Sam from some of the worst stuff. The whole thing with Sam going on about Dean being the golden boy - you could see just from Jensen's acting, despite there not being a line of dialogue about it, that it definitely was not as "golden" as Sam believed it to be.

As for John bashing - there are many people who agree with Sarah's assessment. John may have loved his sons but his obsession came first and he sacrificed much of their lives to that obsession. Sure once in a while he could act like a dad was supposed to, but it was shortlived. I won't go into further details because it would be spoily for big points(as opposed to just minor details).

As for the comics, it's pretty clear Peter Johnson has been a producer on the show in name only and never actually watches the show because he constantly contradicts canon.

According to him in the latest comic at 12 1/2 years old Dean barely knew how to use a shotgun, when we know from the show that Dean was bullseyeing bottles at age 6, expected to protect himself and Sam with a rather large shotgun at age 9(not to mention clearly knowing about the sort of hunting John did) and building his own shotgun at age 12. So highly unlikely Dean was as clueless and whiny about a heavy shotgun as Johnson made him out to be in the comic.

Then there was the whole Impala fiasco of the first set of comic books(among other fiascos, but that stands out because they actually decided to change it in the reprint). If Kripke tries to play off those books as canon I'd laugh at him, there are too many contradictions for major aspects of the story(such as Dean's whole motivation for example, what John knew and when he knew it, etc, etc).

Yeah, Bugs is pretty bad but it still has its moments. I've really been enjoying your podcasts on Supernatural.

Awwww, Big Daddy Winchester. Yes, he's an a**. But I still love him. I think he's awesome and I still hold out hope that one day he'll come back to the show. If you hate him, that's fine; you're entitled to your opinion, but I would like to say this: He's not the worst father ever. Max's father alone beats him in that category. And even though he gave both his boys a screwed up childhood and enough issues to last them a lifetime, at least he never abandoned them. He always dragged them along with him on his demon hunts. I know he "threw Sam out" but after watching John and Sam fight in later episodes, I can see how the college fight could get out of hand. Those two are just too much alike!! It's amazing that those two didn't kill each other a long time ago.

Hi, girls! Thank you for another great episode! This is seriously becoming one of the highlights of my week. Next episode is a personal favorite of mine (of Season 1).

And sarah, I couldn't agree more with you about John Winchester. Worst dad ever!

Great job, ladies!

lol haha jared padalecki and jensen ackles had to brave the real bees in that small attic in regular clothes while everyone nearby was in full beegear. i'm okay with the night being pretty short, because i wouldn't want a bee to sting jensen or jared in their very hot faces! haha (jensen caught stung in the bum)

the problem i had with leaving in the car quickly, was because the wife was still inside and what would happen if the many bees mobbed around the metallicar (maybe even pop the tires!) that would be worse than the attic.

haha i agree that the people who thought the brothers were gay, was kinda funny. i think its okay if dean is kinda angry with that, only because he's such a womanizer (i think thats why he has that kinda reaction here and in another ep later).

nice podcast. even though this episode wasn't on the top of my list, it was decent. thanks again

You know, Sarah's whole hypercritical John bashing is the major reason that entire communities boycott this site.

She's made her opinion known, perhaps stop beating said dead horse?

It also shows how ignorant she is about the shows canon. The comics, John's journal, etc made it very clear why he had no choices in how he raised the boys and when he would try to be a normal dad, blood was always spilled and usually the boys.

This is the ep where even sane John bashers learned the awful truth, Sam was a bit of a drama queen, and John wasnt that bad.

If Sam can even admit that by the show's end, what's Sarah's deal?

Perhaps she needs to speak to someone about her own daddy issues?

you are right this was an okay episode
the next one is really good
I know the twon new glas will love it
great podcast
no hole in the imapla
lol

I TOLD you to fast-forward through the shower scene!! Thanks for the podcast, ladies, a joy as always. The brother-moments make up for the rest of the less-than-stellar episode. See you next week!!

Great podcast, as usual.

And I never thought "Bugs" was as bad as the fandom made it out to be. I mean, it wasn't the greatest ep of season one. But it was more entertaining than, say, "Hook Man." It had a lot of good moments, both humorous and dramatic. And, if bugs actually bothered me, it definately would've creeped me out. I know it really creeped out a lot of other viewers.

I think what really hurt the ep was the Insta-Dawn. Without the Insta-Dawn, I think the ep would've been marked down as sorta average but not bad. But the Insta-Dawn was just so ridiculous and campy, it's hard to remember their was good stuff before the 8 minute jump from midnight to sunrise.

Basically, I agree that the ep isn't nearly as bad as the fandom sort of fondly makes it out to be.